Curse

baz777 · Jan 07, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Lastly, the skill balance testing will take place--as a test--at the same time that the Heroes' Ascent Weekend takes place. What does this mean? It means that instead of rolling out skill changes in a final state, players will have a chance to test not just the new mechanics of HA and the proposed revisions to that venue, but a significant number of potential skill changes, too. You're therefore will be beta testing both. At the end of the weekend, the skill changes and the changes to HA will be rolled back out, feedback retrieved and analyzed, and the final changes will then be implemented into the game.

Gaile

I read this as the changes to HA and the proposed skill balancing being as one?

I do hope that the consideration of the skill balancing, (and any subsequent debate/assessment), is not just going to be decided upon by those that participate in HA, which to many on these forums seems to be the case, wrongly or rightly.

Sarevok Thordin · Jan 07, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Gaile, 2 Questions

1. Are you saying the Skill testing will be limited ONLY to HA (as in, the rest of the game isn't affected)?

2. Are some of the changes going to help stamp out Rank discrimination. If so, I could finally try to encourage some friends to get into it (A few have a strong distaste for it due to the rampant unranked hate)

Bread Fan · Jan 07, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

2. Are some of the changes going to help stamp out Rank discrimination. If so, I could finally try to encourage some friends to get into it (A few have a strong distaste for it due to the rampant unranked hate)

While we are at it please remove survivor titles, sunspear titles and gladiator titles.

Clord · Jan 08, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread Fan

While we are at it please remove survivor titles, sunspear titles and gladiator titles.

Diffirence is that in PvE mode your titles not so much effect to getting group like in PvP.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 08, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

The key difference is that the people that "started at R0" when prophecies just started (like me) don't have to deal with rank problems since everyone is R0.

People who started a few months after that has to deal with some discrimination but since the momentum of prophecies is still going strong, there are still many R0 of various level.

People who started another few months after (aka air spike/smite/spirit spam era) must grind R3 with unranked occasionally, which isn't that hard.

And another few months after that (Iway era), zero chance to join any ranked group, and most notice unranked group can't make any progress because of ridiculous skill difference, and chances are learn nothing because they got rolled before they even got a glimpse of what's going on......people started forming dedicated "N" group and guilds and completely ignore the rest of the people, some leaves, and the rest fotm grind their way up.

And now, population entering HA is slowed to a trickle (just look at the amount of dist), with many leaving due to the rank problems reducing the population of unranked even further, trying to form an unranked group is like trying to find a pin in an ocean...THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH unranked people to form friends list, and most guild has rank req.

Conclusion: Unless you wanted be labeled fotm farmer, new people should just give up. For them....its like telling a newbie guild to go up against a top 10 guild and then asking them "what advanced strategy did they use" and trying to get them to learn....its just not possible.

HA, from the beginning, should be separated by rank to begin with. R0-2 ONLY fights R0-2, R3-5 ONLY fights R3-5...and so forth. Anyone saying that forming unranked now is as painless as Apr 2005....well, think again.

Hmmm, I started December 2005 and overcame it just fine... ( I mean started the game in Dec., I started HA much later)

Liberations · Jan 08, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

I know a million people are going to jump down my throat but I think they should disable the ability to show the Gladiator and Hero titles, as well as the Rank Emotes while in a PvP outpost.

Anyway, thank you so much to the ANet Dev team for giving us this weekend. Although HA is still fun, rank discrimination and draining of unique builds is destroying it. (3 Districts on a good day as opposed to the original 8-10 that was present months before Factions came out). I really hope the update will be very large and will take place before the release of Chapter 4.

Alleji · Jan 08, 2007, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

2. Are some of the changes going to help stamp out Rank discrimination. If so, I could finally try to encourage some friends to get into it (A few have a strong distaste for it due to the rampant unranked hate)

Um... if you have friends who want to play HA, get them together and play?

For example, I played 90% of my way from rank 4 to 8 with the same pool of about 12 people. So I didn't give a damn about rank discrimination. If you have friends, I don't see why you can't do the same.

Franco Power · Jan 08, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Gaile with all duo respect people enjoyed 6vs6 because it was something new and exciting and most important the double fame.

But you already knew that... just in case lol.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 08, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Honestly, stop complaining about rank people have overcome rank discrimination, its not that hard if you get off your ass and actually make an effort, stop being jealous of ranked people, your pve experience does not give you a right to get into the most experienced HA grouos.

Shendaar · Jan 08, 2007, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

I believe that the skill balances are supposed to take place in "mid-January", so I'm guessing that they'll happen a bit before the weekend as part of anet's regular updates. Also, I don't think anyone is denying that getting r0-r3 is a grind, we're just saying that it is necessary and people have to work for it, which is a good thing as it results in an overall better player and mor experience. As for fotms keeping HA alive, /signed, more fotms easier it is to get into HA. This is yet another reason for 8v8, it was easier for new players to get into the game (although the complete lack of competition in 6v6 makes it easy in an entirely different way).

Yes because spamming "lfg" for 30 minutes really makes me a better player. The grind is unnecessary, no matter how hard you try to justify it.

Hell I think I'm gonna go grind a bit right now because I totally need to get better at spamming "lfg". Let me know if you know of any other "necessary grind" so I can go waste my time some more.

Sab · Jan 08, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

*hint hint*

Juicey Shake · Jan 08, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

who said you need to pug to get yer r3, find some pve friends who want to get into pvp, and go at it. go on forums. etc. bitch less about rank discrimination and go play

Gaile Gray · Jan 08, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Unfortunately, that image doesn't capture a "hint" but rather abuse of a system that was put in place at the request of players. Seeing that, and hearing the complaints of players who would like to use the system in its intended fashion, I imagine Support may be forced to start actioning accounts. Either that, or we change, adjust, or remove the trade portion of the entire system and go back to WTS in town.

Please, folks, if you know anyone doing this, tell them to stop -- it's not going to make the slightest difference in the decisions of the designers, and it's extremely antisocial and counterproductive.

About testing: The skill testing will take place everywhere and at the same time as HA testing. We don't want to try to do two sets of testing on two different days. And yes, it's testing, pause, and then finalization. It's is ab it discouraging to read some of the negative comments, as if players feel that they have an entitlement to skill balancing, and within the timeline that they feel it's required. There is a downside to the testing process: It may be a bit longer to get the final skill changes into the game. There is an upside: The skill changes will no doubt be better because of the testing. In any regard, I do believe the finalization would occur in a few weeks or even less than that, so there's no need for heavy concern and please, don't go into this with a negative frame of mind -- it does neither you, us, nor the game a bit of good to do so!

Yes, I'm aware that part of the player approval for 6v6 was because it was "new and exciting." Some of it was probably coloured by the double rewards. But regardless, those facts do not necessarily end us up with 8v8 as the "obvious choice" for HA. It may come; it may not come. But let's wait and see how things progress and not make arguments in advance of evidence, ok?

As you know, I'm always clear on the fact that I am not a designer. I am intrigued by the idea of "ending rank discrimination," but I'm very glad that I do not have to decide on precisely how to do that. Aside from creating "zones" for different ranks or levels of expertise--and I assume (only a personal assumption, not an official statement!) that we do not want to divide the HA community--I wonder if you guys can provide some ideas about how to eliminate that discimination. There are some who like the more exclusive nature of the format; there are those who would like it to be more open. It's fairly easy to see what would support the exclusivity, but share your thoughts on how to achieve the goal of greater openness and a warmer welcome for those who are less experienced.

I do understand that nothing should be turned into a cakewalk, and naturally I agree. Challege, difficulty, and even obsticles to overcome are not negatives! I had an interesting post exchange on that last night, as a matter of fact. So I don't think that players would appreciate a list of suggestions that boils down to "How to turn HA into Bunnyland." (Right, guys?

) But if you have suggestions for broadening HA's appeal while maintaining the delightful challenge that it offers, we're all ears!

Thanks.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 08, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Regrettably, I think there really is no effective way to earn rank discrimination without causing a mass migration of everyone r5 or above to quit HA and/or the game...

manitoba1073 · Jan 08, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

I agree with Gaile on that those abusing that need to be taken care of. And lets not forget the ones who are on the edge of flames here, hopefully they have been warned. Tired of hearing some PvP'ers attitude on this,(not naming names). There is a reason why they changed HA as it is, sorry if you dont like it. Only choices that can be made are by yourself, dont like it well I'm sure you can go find something else. After all its your choice. Regardless what you think there is a bad rank discremination in HA. I'm quite sure some will call me lazy and get off my rump, but let me say this, There's a reason why i have 2 fame in 20 months of gametime. THEY DONT MAKE ENOUGH ALCOHOL TO PUT UP WITH MOST OF THE PvP'ers THERE.

zara · Jan 08, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Regardless what you think there is a bad rank discremination in HA. I'm quite sure some will call me lazy and get off my rump, but let me say this, There's a reason why i have 2 fame in 20 months of gametime.

Umm the reason is called sloth and lack of initiative. Seriously, I do not understand why people complain so much about rank discrimination. Sure it does exist, is it a problem, only to those who see it as a problem. the problem is that they do not want to put forth the effort and earn their rank, make groups, find friends to HA, or join an HA guild. All I can say to those who complain is quit QQ, it doesn't do anyone any good, especially you.

As for the weekend, maybe itll inspire me to HA again and be more than a lever and map deletion.

Ate of DK · Jan 08, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Do the players that have no rank or a low rank realy believe their chance of winning increases if high-ranked players can't show their emote anymore?

In 3 months the Title dissapeared and the Forums look like this:
"ANET, pleeeaase remove Friendslist cause all good parties only play with people they have on their Friendslist and I can't get on their team because they can always whisper friends."

I hope these new changes make things a lot more interesting and I also hope they let it stay 6vs6 for now. Look at GvG... it's worthless too at the moment.

B Ephekt · Jan 08, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

2. Are some of the changes going to help stamp out Rank discrimination. If so, I could finally try to encourage some friends to get into it (A few have a strong distaste for it due to the rampant unranked hate)

As long as there is rank there will be people who choose to play with those of similar experience. If you remove rank you remove the main reason people play HA.

IMO, if people can't be bothered to find unranked groups, or start their own, and build up a friends list they're probably not ready to move over into pvp. Stop whining and put some effort into making some friends.

6v6 HA is a total scrub arena anyway, I'm not really sure why any new players would even want to play there.

Thanks for your efforts Gaile, but 6v6 was a bad move. Fix it or you're going to lose even more players.

Ate of DK · Jan 08, 2007, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

As long as there is rank there will be people who choose to play with those of similar experience. If you remove rank you remove the main reason people play HA.

So... if there is nothing to play for people won't even play it in a very short time.

That leaves 2 options for those that wanna have fun and don't want rank:
1. You abbandon the Rank-system and the place is soon as desolated as the Jade Quarry.
2. Play with people that have the same opinion as yourself. Since... people that are ranked don't fit in your Friendslist cause they have other objectives (Doesn't count for everyone... but if you want it black vs white)

Bocjo Bassannn · Jan 08, 2007, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Forgive me for what I am about to post but I feel this needs said.

First let me tell you a bit about me and my experience with online gameing. I run a guild that is going on 10 years old now. We come from the land of Mechwarrior a few of you might have even played it. In mechwarrior we as a group could "lock" up our servers and invite in who we wanted to play with ect. We were in total controll of the "community" we choose to play with. Due to our league matches or just fun scrimages for the most part it was nothing but fun. The result was we as a unit only got brief glimpses of what went on in "public" open Mechwarrior servers...

This brings me to my point. Were you to ask most anyone from my unit about pvp or HoH they would say they hate it.... The reason why has NOTHING to do with the maps, this build or that build it has to do with the people. The overall general community that plays pvp is hatefull and rude and as a rule not helpfull and that is putting it mildly. Simply put the internet is the land of no or very few consequences for your actions... In a competitive environment this is bad, it brings out the worst in most everyone... After all I can call you names because you beat me or I beat you and what is done? what can be done? This is the MAIN problem that ANY online game that offers any style of pvp has. People get sick of getting insulted because they won or lost and simply move on to something else.

Hall of Heroes brings to mind just from the name a place where Honor and Skill and a great chalenge should be expected.. Instead in my time there earning my rank 6 in HoH it was realy little more than a internet insult machine. This is the biggest problem at least to me about HoH and general GvG and PvP gamewide. But to get people to "play nice" in a unmonitored competitive environment is a impossible thing to create.

My suggestion is somehow creating a way to monitor the behaviour of pvp players in this game. GvG HoH and PvP areas could ALL benifit from this. Give us some consequences for our actions and behavior online in these areas if you ask me or most anyone in my unit this would be the single best improvement you could make to pvp in this game. Give people a reason to behave like something other than rabid dogs fighting over the same bone.

One idea I have is creating a way for players to "register" for this "new" way to pvp. The only example I have to draw from is the "league" games my unit played in mechwarrior. The "league" we played in had rules for behavior and direct consequences if you broke those rules. Everything from you were kicked out of the league due to repeated offenses to you were banned from competitive play for a few matches. I am not suggesting that anet kick people off of all of guild wars because they were rude in pvp...Merely you wouldnt be able to play "registered" pvp due to bad behavior poor sportsmanship ect. ect.

Why then would people want to play "registered" pvp then? Listing players individual standings as "registered" pvp players on some webspace somewhere giving them recognition for there skill as a pvp player gamewide. I can foresee in game rewards for the top 100 hell even the top 1000 pvp players in each country. Giveing rewards like this gives people the reason they need to NOT behave like the rabid dogs they are now in pvp.

This idea could be taken and used in many different ways to create many many different aspects of guild wars pvp not yet considered. Such as the "closed skill set" pvp tourneys I have seen disscused and other very intresting ideas. But if the pvp environment is to improve much more than map changes and skill balanceing needs to be looked at.